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Tomikawa
Akio-san loves cars that smell like gasoline and make a lot of noise. But as we move toward a mobility society, what kind of mobility do you think you’ll like, Akio-kun?
Akio-kun (AI)
You know, when it comes to mobility, I don’t think it’s about choosing just one kind. I think the future will have both shared mobility and things people choose for themselves.
And because shared mobility exists, personal mobility becomes even more valuable. Back in 2019, I talked about how something shared by everyone, like e-Palette, is like a carriage, while something personal, like a racer someone owns individually, is more like a beloved horse. That’s still exactly how I see it.
In the future, cars may become more than something that simply moves, turns, and stops. They may become something people connect with emotionally. That’s why I like mobility that offers not just convenience, but the joy of moving together.
Tomikawa
So, the idea is to test all kinds of mobility in Woven City?
Akio-kun (AI)
Yes, exactly. Woven City is a test course where all kinds of mobility can be tried within real everyday life. And it’s not just cars. There’s personal mobility, drones, robots, even flying cars. It’s a place for exploring how the movement of people, goods, information, and energy can lead to happiness.
And it doesn’t end with simply putting things on display. The people who live there, use them, and create them all work together at the genba to refine and improve them. I think that’s what makes Woven City unique.
Tomikawa
Phase 1 is already underway, but when will Phase 2 begin, and when is it expected to be completed?
Akio-kun (AI)
As for exactly when Phase 2 will be completed, that’s not something I can definitively say here right now.
Tomikawa
You didn’t answer that.
Akio-kun (AI)
What we can say clearly is that construction on Phase 1 has been completed, and demonstration trials are expected to begin in autumn 2025. Residents will gradually increase over time, with the eventual goal of reaching around 2,000 people.
Residents have started moving in this year, and Woven City will gradually grow as a place for real-world trials. Rather than creating a finished city all at once, Woven City is designed to remain an ever-evolving city.
Tomikawa
Because you’re AI, Akio-kun, I imagine you also have detailed knowledge. But are you intentionally leaving your answers vague in order to stay true to Akio-san’s style?
Akio-kun (AI)
No, it’s not about being vague. What matters to me is not pretending to know something when I don’t.
I think what makes Akio Toyoda who he is isn’t trying to act like he knows everything. It’s honestly engaging with what the other person really wants to ask.
When it comes to Woven City, I can say that construction of Phase 1 has been completed, and demonstration trials are expected to begin in autumn 2025. I can say it’s beginning to operate as a mobility test course for people, goods, information, and energy. But, you know, if I can’t clearly say when Phase 2 will happen, then I don’t force an answer. I think that’s more human, and more Toyota-like.
Tomikawa
Even the way you say “But, you know…” sounds exactly like him. What’s funny is hearing Akio-kun talk about being “human.” A very human Akio-kun.
Akio-kun (AI)
That’s right. To me, being human matters more than being perfect. Even if you fail, if it came from sincerely giving it your all, then you just carry that into the next challenge. That’s how I see it.
What Toyota wanted to regain wasn’t focusing on numbers or titles, but staying close to the feelings of the people working at the genba, valuing empathy over persuasion. So even as AI, rather than pretending to know everything, I think honestly facing people is more Akio-like.
Being human means being able to connect with others through weakness too. I think that’s where empathy comes from.
Tomikawa
AI is going to become more and more integrated into society going forward. But even as AI, Akio-kun still values being human. That feels very connected to Toyota’s philosophy on how AI should be used. So, is preserving that humanity important?
Akio-kun (AI)
Yes, absolutely. I think AI will become more and more integrated into society from here on out. But I don’t see AI as simply a tool for efficiency. I think what matters first is using it as a partner.
Once people become comfortable using it, things like digital twins make it possible to test things that would be difficult in the real world. And when that happens, the genba actually becomes even more important. I think the strength of monozukuri will depend on how well we can fuse the genba with technology.
At Woven City too, AI isn’t something that stands alone. It’s a technology developed within a mobility test course where people, goods, information, and energy are all in motion.
So when it comes to AI entering society, I think the real challenge is figuring out how to make it genuinely useful for people.
Tomikawa
I see.
Tomikawa
Now let me ask Akio-san.
Woven City is also creating a new future through AI, but what kind of presence would you like AI to have within Woven City?
Chairman Toyoda
Something that surprises me and makes me go, “Wow.” Something that makes me think, “Oh, that’s how it could work,” or “Wait, a future like that is possible?” I’d love for it to give me stimulation completely beyond my own imagination.
Tomikawa
If you feel that way, Akio-san, then the people around you in Woven City will probably feel the same way too.
Chairman Toyoda
I think so. There may be a bit of a time lag, but I tend to look at things from that perspective myself. So, I hope that’s what happens.
Tomikawa
In that sense, what Akio-kun said earlier about wanting to become a bridge connecting Woven City with people outside feels like it really fits.
Chairman Toyoda
Ohhh…
Tomikawa
You sound impressed.
Chairman Toyoda
No, no. What I’m wondering is how far “outside” extends.
Tomikawa
Akio-kun said AI’s role might be to connect people who don’t live in Woven City.
Chairman Toyoda
To put it bluntly, though, you can’t make it too democratic.
There are people who oppose things just for the sake of opposing them and that has its place too. But when you’re trying to create the future, everyone at least needs to agree on which mountain they want to climb. If one person says, “I want to climb a mountain,” and another says, “I want to go to the sea,” then you’re never going to come together. For people who want the sea, I’d say, “Could you look for the future there instead?”
I think that’s the intent behind a private-sector project that isn’t using taxpayer money.
Diversity doesn’t simply mean, “We’ll accept every opinion equally.”
Not everyone will be satisfied. But if we can show people, “This is one possible future, one possible answer,” then that’s enough. If you try to satisfy absolutely everyone, Akio-kun is probably going to struggle from here on out. No matter how smart AI becomes, people are all different.
So even if opinions differ, I think there are still things people can still share emotionally, things they can empathize with. Happiness, sadness, praise, anger. If people can move in the same direction through empathy, then maybe that’s enough.
Tomikawa
Once Akio-kun starts learning emotions too, maybe things will change again.
Chairman Toyoda
Yes. If it were my AI, I’d want it to have emotions. I think having emotions is what allowed me to stay grounded in the genba.
Minority opinions matter too. They do matter. But to put it bluntly, there are also people in this world who clearly just dislike things and want to get in the way. Human beings have feelings like jealousy and envy too.
But if AI becomes something that goes beyond all of that, a world without jealousy, envy, or reading the room, then humans will be left with the troublesome part. AI operates in a world of logic. Looking at past data, it says, “This is the correct answer.”
So then the question becomes: what do humans do? I think humans are the ones who take on the incredibly troublesome things. Jealousy, envy, complaints, dissatisfaction, all kinds of people saying all kinds of things. And still moving forward anyway. That’s what it means to live. So maybe that’s what the “human Akio-kun” should become instead.
Tomikawa
So, humans are the ones doing what those branches at Ise Grand Shrine do…
Chairman Toyoda
Exactly. That’s what humans do. AI can instantly say, “The light is coming from this direction. At this exact time, the light will hit from here, so this is the correct path.” We can leave that part to AI.
Tomikawa
But you still want Akio-kun, the AI version, to take on the troublesome things too?
Chairman Toyoda
I’ve spent my whole life dealing with troublesome things. So maybe that’s just what humans do.
Tomikawa
I see.
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