Tomikawa
We also introduced this in Toyota Times News, where you said you had narrowed down the things you must do as chairman to three. I encourage everyone to take a look.
Those three are:
First, develop people so Toyota does not become an ordinary company.
Second, think about the future shape of the Group.
And third, promote cultural activities.
Akio
Rather than saying I narrowed it down to three, as I mentioned earlier, many people still think, “The chairman is probably running things from behind the scenes.” Even some employees think that. So I wanted to make it clear that what I’m working on now is the Toyota Group and developing the next generation of leaders. In a way, during my fourteen years as president, I may have ended up being something like a dictator. That’s probably how many people inside the company saw it. From my own perspective, it sometimes felt more like all the responsibility was being dumped on me. But the reality is, if there isn’t someone playing that role, a company as large as Toyota, where everyone works together to create products, simply can’t function. When that kind of leader disappears, the company can easily lose its direction. If people stop making decisions or taking responsibility, it becomes more comfortable to stay within each function, and things start moving in that direction. That’s why developing leaders so Toyota does not become an ordinary company is really about preparing for the post-Akio Toyoda era. Even after I’m gone, there must be people who can see the whole elephant. At the same time, there must be experts in each function. Some people seem to think I’ll always be here. But I won’t.
Tomikawa
You have very sharp instincts, and your antenna is always out there picking things up, so naturally people do end up relying on you. You describe yourself as a “dictator,” but if you mean this in the sense of setting the direction first and taking responsibility, that may be true. And that also created a culture where people felt encouraged to take on challenges, reflected in the idea of making ever-better cars.
Akio
You say that, but I’m not so sure that’s how it feels inside the company. I think many people still feel, “I don’t want to fail.” You probably feel you can say anything to me. But my sense is that for about ninety percent of people in the company, I’m still someone they feel hesitant to approach.
Tomikawa
Just so our listeners know, I’ll casually send Akio a LINE message saying, “I won the badminton tournament.”
Akio
That’s right. He’ll send messages like, “I’ve been asked to take on this kind of assignment. What do you think?” And I usually say this. In the age of AI, people may only work three or four days a week. The question becomes what you do with the other three days. Some people will want to work more, while others will spend that time on their hobbies. And I tell him, “You should lead the way.” But I’m not sure that message really gets through to others. When I’m overseas like this, I sometimes wonder if people don’t bring me information because they don’t want to risk making a mistake.
Tomikawa
But even if someone fails, you’re not the type to get angry, right?
Akio
The thing is, many so-called elites grow up without ever experiencing setbacks or failure, even from their student days. So even if you tell them, “It’s okay to fail,” they say, “No, no.” It’s almost like failure isn’t in their vocabulary.
Tomikawa
When I was at TV Asahi and got COVID, it felt awkward going back to work. But after joining Toyota, when I caught it again, Akio just laughed and said, “You must really be loved by COVID.” And I thought, “Wait, this is different.”
Akio
That kind of freedom should exist. But somehow, the environment I’m dealing with doesn’t really feel that way.
Tomikawa
So, for Toyota to remain true to itself, it’s about developing people who can see the whole picture. After all, no one can simply imitate Akio Toyoda.
Akio
There’s no need to imitate me. I always tell people to make better use of their own individuality, but maybe they still don’t quite believe that yet. Another issue is that Toyota’s training system tends to focus on what I’d call “Superman-style” development.
Tomikawa
Like someone who can do everything.
Akio
But being able to do everything might also mean being half-way at everything. In the age of AI, someone who can do a little of everything won’t stand out as much as those who can clearly say, “This is what I’m good at.” That’s where a person’s real value will show.
Tomikawa
It’s like a baseball lineup.
Akio
When you think about it that way, someone who can do a little of everything at sixty or seventy percent may struggle in the age of AI. If you’re going to do something, you either need to be truly top class at it or be willing to get your hands dirty. The people in between may end up with fewer opportunities to gain the experience needed to develop others. So before being replaced by AI, it’s important not to aim for being halfway at everything or trying to be a Superman, but to sharpen the one thing that defines your individuality. The one thing you can say is, “This is where I won’t lose to anyone.” And I don’t think there’s much time left to do that.
Tomikawa
So by continuing to refine themselves in their own “ba” or place, people will grow into the kind of leaders who can keep Toyota true to itself.
Akio
I think so. There needs to be a top management team thinking about how Toyota pursues ever-better cars. And each person should make the most of their own individuality. Different opinions are fine, but in the end someone has to decide. If we don’t keep doing that properly, I feel the company could slip back into being an ordinary one.
Tomikawa
That New Year’s address… it was possible because there was a place to share it directly with the people who chose to attend.
Akio
Actually, after I became chairman, no one invited me to the New Year’s address. Since I wasn’t invited, I didn’t go. But then I started hearing comments from the frontlines, including new employees, saying, “Why doesn’t the chairman show up?”
Tomikawa
People want to hear from you and meet you.
Akio
I’m not even invited to the entrance ceremony. But I started wondering if that was really the right thing. So this time I said, “Let me join for a bit.”
Tomikawa
Like the graduation ceremony at Toyota Technical Skills Academy.
Akio
The academy graduation ceremony is one where I say, “I’ll be there.”
Tomikawa
So maybe people wanted you to attend the New Year’s address and the entrance ceremony but just couldn’t say it.
Akio
I don’t know, but no one invited me.
Tomikawa
Maybe people are just holding back on their own?
Akio
I think that’s part of it.
Tomikawa
If you didn’t want to do it, you’d say no. They should just ask.
Akio
You’d think so, right? But maybe if their opinion is different, it feels a bit scary to speak up. I’m not sure. In any case, no one really says anything to me.
Tomikawa
You’re the kind of person who says, “Sorry I couldn’t make it,” to the point where we almost feel sorry for you. There’s no reason to think you’d get angry. I hope people listening to this program understand that it’s okay to tell you things directly.
Akio
I really hope people feel that way. You normally wouldn’t say this on the radio, but that’s the reality I’m in. Even this time I was thinking, “I’d love to go to the WRC.” Yet I kept wondering why no one brought it up to me.
Tomikawa
You’re busy, so when you meet the drivers, you’d want to know what’s going on beforehand. Otherwise, it’s hard to have a real conversation.
Akio
You can’t really have a conversation. It makes things difficult.
Tomikawa
So that covers the first of the three priorities, talent development. The second is thinking about the future of the group, something you’ve been emphasizing since becoming chairman.
Akio
I’ve been saying this for a long time. As it happened, there were various scandals across group companies. I’ve often been the one apologizing on Toyota’s behalf. But through that process, I was able to step into different group companies and work on rebuilding trust. And in the end, that turned out to be a good thing. At last year’s Japan Mobility Show, Daihatsu also exhibited as a wholly owned subsidiary. After the scandals, they had lost some of their energy, but with the mobility show and that commercial, it felt like employees started to regain their spirit. The mood began to shift toward, “Let’s try something interesting.” I think that may be the role I’m meant to play.
Tomikawa
Like that “fight” at the Tokyo Auto Salon.
Akio
Yes, that was intentional. I wanted to break the atmosphere where people felt they couldn’t speak openly to me. Recently, Executive Vice President Nakajima, who’s been getting quite a reputation as “Toyota’s Giaiano,” said something on that stage that really stuck with me. He said, “Of course there are people who want to build cars together with Morizo. But there are many more who want to make ever-better cars, even without Morizo.” And honestly, I completely agree with that.
Tomikawa
And Nakajima added, “I’m one of them.”
Akio
Yes, I hope a lot of employees heard that. You don’t have to keep saying Morizo or Akio-san just for appearances. If you’re making good cars, the truth will speak for itself. Here you have an executive vice president openly pushing back against Morizo and throwing down a challenge. That’s the kind of thing I’d like everyone to follow.
Tomikawa
Normally you’d think, “Is that okay?” But you seemed pretty pleased when you heard it. Though Giaiano wasn’t exactly looking you in the eye.
Akio
Giaiano wasn’t looking me in the eye. He was a little scared.
Tomikawa
But he said he’d win a trophy at WEC and bring it back to prove it.
Akio
I’d love to see that. If they win Le Mans and say, “We can win even without Morizo,” I’d be glad to hear it.
Tomikawa
In that sense, Europe is the home base of TR…
Akio
Here in Europe it’s GR, right? TR’s home base is in the U.S.
Tomikawa
The U.S.? Ah, right. There’s NASCAR too.
Akio
GR has rally as well, so it’s really more Europe-based. TR feels more like the U.S.
Tomikawa
So even if you ran into Giaiano (VP Nakajima) here, you wouldn’t let him call this TR’s home turf…
Akio
Well, he can say it if he wants. Go ahead.
Tomikawa
Thinking about the group as a whole, including Daihatsu and Toyota Industries.
Akio
In the past, there may have been a feeling within the Toyota group that Toyota Motor was governing from a couple of heads above the rest of the group. But in reality, that was often just someone from a particular function at Toyota Motor acting that way. When it comes to how companies within the group relate to each other, is that really the right approach? I feel that’s where my role comes in. For example, the Daihatsu commercial was created entirely by Daihatsu’s own employees. We’re doing similar things with other group companies as well.
Tomikawa
That’s great. It really brings the energy back.
Akio
Some group companies still refer to us as “Toyota-sama.” But it shouldn’t be “-sama,” right? Toyota Motor exists because the Toyota Group exists, and the Toyota Group exists because Toyota Motor is a member. It’s really about respecting each other and working together based on each company’s strengths. It may sound a bit idealistic, but that’s the kind of Toyota Group I hope to see. And that’s why I’ve started talking about culture. I think we need something to share beyond just work.
Tomikawa
When it comes to culture, initiatives like CEIPA and MOVEUM in Yokohama really emphasize carrying them out as the Toyota Group.
Akio
Yes.
Tomikawa
Hearing Akio Toyoda, who doesn’t exactly give off a cultural vibe, talk about promoting cultural activities across the Toyota Group, which also doesn’t necessarily have that kind of image.
Akio
Each company is already doing various social contribution activities. The thing is, people just don’t hear much about them.
Tomikawa
Was it around last year that you started talking about culture, Akio?
Akio
When I became chairman of the Automobile Business & Culture Association of Japan, someone asked me what our catchphrase should be. I thought about it quite a bit, and I felt that “turning cars into a culture” might be the most fitting role for the organization. That’s when I think I started speaking outwardly about culture.
Tomikawa
And that led you to think there might be things the Toyota Group could do together.
Akio
With music through CEIPA and art through MOVEUM, I thought that if we’re going to do it, we might as well do it together as the Toyota Group.
Tomikawa
So, these are things that need to be done while you’re chairman, and that will continue going forward.
Akio
My shelf life as chairman isn’t that long. While I’m here, I want to pass the baton to the next generation. I’m not sure yet what form that will take.
Tomikawa
But it does make sense. In terms of Japan competing with the world, and also in terms of children growing up and developing into people who can compete globally.
Akio
Toyota is a global company, so I think we’re already connected to the world. Take sumo, for example. I didn’t know this myself until recently, but it’s practiced in about 150 countries. And in each of those places, there are people who drive Toyota vehicles and many other stakeholders connected to us. So whether it’s music or sumo, when people are striving to reach the world stage, I believe Toyota and the Toyota Group can help support them.
Tomikawa
And when those seeds grow around the world like that, they make their way back to Japan.
Akio
I think it’s a way to make our presence felt in the world while remaining independent and building empathy with others. Talking about business can sound a bit self-serving, but culture creates a stronger sense of connection.
Tomikawa
Listening to you talk like this, it’s clear how much you love Japan.
Akio
I do. I really do.
